Moravian Theological Seminary                                                                    Dr.Robert C. Newman

May 4, 1989                                                                                        BiblicalTheological Seminary

 

DEBATE ON

WOMEN'S ORDINATION

 

 

Opening Remarks

 

            Certainironies in this debate:

 

                        Bothdebaters men, batchelors, celibates.

                        RomanCatholic debater is against the Pope's position.

                        Protestantdebater in favor of it.

 

            Topicevokes considerable heat:

 

                        Menhave misused authority, spoken snidely, etc.

                                    (butthis is true of all kinds of human authority ever since humanity fell into sin)

 

                        Womenfeel being shut out of certain offices implies they are viewed as inferior,since this is common view in our society today (and prob thruout history)

                                    (notbiblical view, where humility is important characteristic of leadership: Moses,Jesus, etc; and authority not = personal worth: Trinity)

 

                        Wantto examine biblical teaching on subject

 

 

According to Bible, Women are not to be Elders

 

            Rangeof term "ordination"

 

                        Sometraditions ordain deacons

                                    butsome biblical support for women as deacons

 

                        Sometraditions distinguish pastors, elders, bishops

                                    butthese appear to be synonymous in Bible

 

                        Herelimiting "ordination" to eldership

                                    suggestBible does not permit women elders

 

            DirectBiblical Evidence

 

                        Noexplicit statement like "Thou shalt have no women elders before Me"or such

 

                        Butcontrast qualifications for elder/deacon in 1 Timothy 3:

 

1Tim 3:1-13 (NASU) It is a trustworthy statement: if anyman aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires [to do]. 2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate,prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine orpugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 [He must be]one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control withall dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, howwill he take care of the church of God?), 6 [and] not a new convert, so that hewill not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside [the church], so thathe will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8 Deacons likewise[must be] men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fondof sordid gain,

9 [but] holding to the mystery of the faith with a clearconscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve asdeacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 Women [must] likewise [be] dignified,not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Deacons mustbe husbands of [only] one wife, [and] good managers of [their] children andtheir own households.

13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain forthemselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in ChristJesus.

 

                                    1Tim 3:11 may be provision for women deacons

                                                cpRom 16:1; Pliny Ep 96.8

 

Rom 16:1 (NASU) I commend to you our sister Phoebe, whois a servant [or deaconess] of the church which is at Cenchrea;

 

Pliny, Letters 96.8 They alsodeclared that the sum total of their guilt or error amounted to no more thanthis:  they had met regularlybefore dawn on a fixed day to chant verses alternately among themselves inhonor of Christ as if to a godÉ This made me decide it was all the more necessary to extract the truthby torture from two slave-women, whom they call deaconesses.  I found nothing but a degenerate sortof cult carried to extravagant lengths. I have therefore postponed any further examination and hastened to consultyou.

 

                                    nothingparallel in section on elders 3:1-7

 

 

                        Moredirect evidence in 1 Tim 2:11-12:

 

1Tim 2:11-12 (NASU) A woman must quietly receiveinstruction with entire submissiveness.

12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exerciseauthority over a man, but to remain quiet.

 


            NewTestament Practice

 

                        NoApostles Women

 

                                    Jesuscertainly had women who helped in his ministry

                                                butnone of the 12 were women

                                    Womencertainly were eyewitnesses of his resurrection, but none listed in Paul's listand apparently not believed by the men.

                                    Broaderuse of "apostle" might include Junia

                                                Rom16:7 (unless this is Junias, a poss nickname for Junianus); even with femininename, this may mean "outstanding in opinion of apostles."

 

                        NoScripture Writers Women

 

                                    (notwriter of Hebrews, who uses masculine singular participle to                 referto self in Heb 11:32)

 

                        ClearlyWomen Prophesied: daughters of Philip, etc.

                                    butno examples of their audience

                                    someargument whether this authoritative or not, teaching or not; I think it is, butthis is a matter of God's charismatic initiative, not a regular office (seebelow for OT distinction).

 

                        NoSpecific Indication of Change from OT Situation

                                    mainsuggestion is Gal 3:28:

 

Gal 3:28 (NASU) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there isneither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are allone in Christ Jesus.

 

                                    butcontext is sonship, inheritance – not office

                                                inOT, Gentiles, slaves, females not normally heirs, but in Christ this is changed.

 

            OldTestament Situation

 

                        RegularOffices: those that have standard arrangements for succession

                                    Nopriests women

                                    NoLevites women

                                    Norulers women (exc Athaliah, an usurper)

           


                        CharismaticOffices: chosen by God's Spirit

 

                                    Twoprophets:

                                                Miriam:listed as leading Israel with her brothers (Mic 6:4); as prophet (Ex 15:20)leading women in dancing and tambourine playing

                                                Huldah:sought for consultation rather than speaking in public (2 K 22:14ff)

                                    Onejudge:

                                                Deborah:clearly leading and being consulted in public, but in a context where men not doingwhat they should (Judges 4-5)

 

                                    NoScripture writers appear to be women

                                                bututterances are recorded:

                                                            Miriam(Ex 15:20): singing Moses' song

                                                            Deborah(Jud 5): own song

                                                            Hannah(1 Sam 2): ditto

                                                similarlyin NT w/ Mary (Luke 1)

 

Why Such a Prohibition?

 

            Shouldobey God even if he gives no reason for command

                        recallC.S. Lewis in Perelandra

                                    ifevery command has known reason, then obeying for sake of reason, not because welove and respect God.

 

            Paulsuggests two reasons in 1 Tim 2:13-14:

 

1 Tim 2:12 (NASU) But I do not allow a woman to teach orexercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who wasfirst created, [and] then Eve. 14 And [it was] not Adam [who] was deceived, butthe woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

 

                        (1)priority of man in creation

                                    referringto Genesis 2

                        (2)woman deceived at fall

                                    perhapssuggests women more trusting than men

                                    seemsto be somewhat parallel to other OT examples             wheredescendants penalized for sin of ancestor:

                                                Esauselling birthright: Gen 25ff

                                                Reubenfor incest: Gen 49:3-4

                                                Simeon& Levi for violence: Gen 49:5-7

                                    noteGod's reaction to rebellion of Korah (Levite), Dathan & Abiram(Reubenites): Num 16

                                    andto rebellion of Miriam & Aaron against Moses: Num 12

                                    Elifor not restraining sons: 1 Sam 2-3

                                               

How Long Does Such a Prohibition Last?

 

            Weare not told.

            Suggestthis is another of those features in the NT which represent an advance beyondthe OT, but the full consummation is at the Lord's return.